This is My Stock Trading Journey

My First NeUventure on Wall Street (now known as TRADEway) Seminar

February 22, 2014 | 67 Comments

I had no idea what to expect when my husband and I went to Seminar 1 but I thought for $100 we can’t go wrong and I would just keep my mouth shut and support my husband since he was the one who originally heard about it and wanted to go.

When we walked into the large room at the hotel we checked in and received a book to help follow along and take notes in.  We found some coffee, a muffin and a seat.  While we waited for it to start we enjoyed the Christian music playing.

The 2-day Seminar began with why we need to manage our own money, the importance of time freedom, how wealth is created and why being an entrepreneur should be sought.  We went on to learn the basics of the stock market, how it works, why it works and its lingo.  During the rest of the seminar they continued with a basic course on swing trading.

There were a lot of breaks throughout the days and a long lunch break each day, which we happened to spend in the parking lot sitting on the curb eating our peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.  Well at least until a very kind man took us to lunch the 2nd day.  You can read more about that in my people you meet along the journey post.

So about one-third was teaching, a third was breaks and the other third of the time was spent selling other products.  My husband and I began to be very turned off by this and the price tags.  Call us naïve (I know we were) but we thought we would go and learn for $100 how to make a bunch of money and that’s that.  That was not that.  We found out there was thousands more to pay to learn even more.  Oh and it wasn’t as simple as ‘here is the product and here is the price.’  It was ‘here is the product and here is the price, but wait how about we knock off a few thousand and while we’re at it let’s knock off some more and you know what, we’ll throw this in too.’  We were completely blind sided but if you decide to go you’ll be expecting it after reading this and I think that alone will make it less irritating.

We had no previous background in the stock market and they did a great job at breaking it down to a most basic level and went at a speed we could easily follow.

By the end of the two days we thought we could really do this and be good at it.  I mean they showed us how EASY it is.  Piece of cake and if we join the ‘Insiders’ they will practically do it all for us.  They’ll pick the stocks and evaluate the market as a whole for us.  This is so easy we can do this even while we work other jobs.  We can turn our $500 (and that is literally all we had) into $20,000 in a few short months! We were so excited but even in our excitement we knew we needed to not buy anything and instead take some time to pray and seek God.  That is exactly what we did.  You can find out what we did after this by reading the rest of the story on my how we got started page or read my review on Seminar 2.

It only took us about 6 months to realize that those impressions we had were not reality.  It was not easy, they don’t do it all for you, we didn’t turn our $500 into $20,000 and the only way to succeed in the stock market is to work your tail off.  Study, look through charts, learn, learn, learn and be extremely disciplined.  I wondered how we had gotten such a different impression than reality.  Did we just not understand something they were telling us?  I still don’t know but what I do know is no, NeUventure on Wall Street isn’t a scam and yes, they really do care about us and our success but could they have been a little a lot more upfront with us about the hard work and dedication it would take?  Definitely!

Before you go to Seminar 1 make sure you check out my Top 10 things to know before attending Seminar 1 post.

To hear other’s opinions of NVOWS and whether or not they are successful check out the ‘featured traders‘ tab at the top of the page.

Update: After trading for 3 years I have put together a list of a few things I wish I had known when I started trading.  I hope it can be helpful to someone else getting started.

67 people are talking about “My First NeUventure on Wall Street (now known as TRADEway) Seminar

  1. Pingback: Types of Stock Traders | This is My Stock Trading Journey

  2. Are you seriously telling me that by the end of Seminar 1 you could make $20K without doing any research on your own? don’t get me wrong but it is a seminar, it is not a class, they give you the basics, you of course have to watch the charts and the market, if you don’t do that, how can you know about the companies you are going to invest? I also attended seminar 1 and by the end of it I also signed up to Insiders and bought the software for $29 and enrolled into EOption, it’s not HARD at all!! You have to put time in it. It’s your business you have to treat it as a business. Dedication, time and effort will give profits.

    Also it was $99 for 2 people, so technically $50 a person, NOT BAD AT ALL!!! all the upsells are at your choice, you don’t have to buy anything else in order to succeed, you just need some motivation and do research on your own.

    • Hi Aldana and thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I love ‘meeting’ other NVOWS traders. I agree with you on many points. You do have to do your own research and it does indeed take dedication, time and effort. I stress that throughout my entire blog. As I mentioned my first impressions were a bit off. Remember everyones Seminar 1 experience will be different based on that individuals expectations and past and the actual presenter. I’ve been to several Seminar ones since and each has been different based on who is teaching and I’ve also noticed that more recently NVOWS seems to be stressing a bit more than they used to years ago the dedication it takes to be successful. I agree with you also that $99 is not a bad price and say as much in my opening paragraph and you are absolutely right that opening an EOption account and joining Insiders is easy.
      I just really appreciate you sharing I think it helps everyone who stops by to hear from other NVOWS traders besides just me. If you have a minute please take the time to share more of your stock trading journey. It’s always encouraging to hear from other traders whose ‘dedication, time and effort’ gave you profits as you menitoned above. Happy Trading!

      • eoption has free (good) training under “education and tools”. Many lessons. Also an options trial area you can use without risking actual money.

        I didn’t take Sem2 but learned options free and completed their trading questionaire with help from customer service so I was approved 1st for simple calls and puts.

    • Hi, I have been to the first seminar and I am disappointed in their approach. The fact is that the average person who attends is looking to make more money and get out of debt. Yes, the first seminar is $99.00, but, the second seminar is almost $6,000.00. And, they fail to tell you that at a Seminar 1. In order to get started and be successful you really need to be a top gun and the cost is $11,000.00. Also you really need about $5,000.00 in your trading account to get up and running. That is a cost of $16,000.00. The reality of this is that I don’t have that kind of money and I would venture to say neither do $99 percent of those in attendance. They should be more up front about this.
      How about teaching people God’s people how to get started which is without a doubt the most difficult part. David Mitchell is a wealthy pastor who most likely doesn’t need the money he makes from this company. Plainly, the market they are targeting needs more help than they offer.

      • As I listen to David Mitchell and his goal this morning, the taught was that why charge if he really wants to help the people. Thank you for sharing your thought.

    • The speakers are not traders, they are motivational speakers and that’s it. They are paid to tell you the basics of how things work in the market with some basic strategies and sell you products. Their Newsletter among other ridiculous products can be found by other mentors who have a proven track record at a fraction of the cost. The Perfect Play is NOT something David came up with. It’s used as a strategy by all trading professionals who know how to use it and what to look for. It’s just a basic gap UP or gap Down play.
      It would be ridiculous to pay for eOption when you can get a platform like ThinkorSwim and they do ALL of the work for you as far as graphing, calculating the best Delta for an option, etc. The use of a spreadsheet to find the best option contract is painstakingly slow and no trader who is a professional would use it.

  3. thank you for the list of books that you display to help one get started on journey with learning how to trade
    I forget (only due to how early in the morning he comes on) to watch cramer

    • I’m glad you have found the book list helpful Janne. I also have another resource that happens to be free that I will email you the information on. Look forward to hearing how your trading journey unfolds. Thanks for commenting.

  4. It is really sad that a “Christian” with knowledge uses it to prey on other professing believers to make a buck. If he really loved the Body of Christ, he’d provide this information for free so that everyone could benefit. The problem is there is no way to consistently beat the market. You’d be far better off just investing the original $100 and anything else you spent in an S&P500 index fund and saving all your time, hassle. Technical trading is a hoax. Modern portfolio theory is well proven. The only way to beat the market is to cheat which is what insider trading is all about.

    • “The problem is there is no way to consistently beat the market.”

      That is really not true at all or there would be no traders on Wall Street. I have been with NVOWS for over a year I can say definitively that you CAN win consistently using options, including credit spreads and debit spreads. I do it now. I am helping a Top Gun friend do it, too. The real issue I have with NVOWS is that they don’t tell you BEFORE you lay out your hard earned cash that it may take years to get good at it. It is NOT a get rich quick scheme. It takes time and a lot of effort. Personally, I could not do it part time. I am full time and I love it.

  5. Unlike the typical stock market beginner that NVOWS typically caters to, I have been trading stocks, options, and futures for almost two decades; and have looked at dozens of trading systems of all types (day-trading, swing-trading, etc.), including NVOWS. I attended Seminar 1 a couple of years ago, and will offer the following thoughts:

    1. Much of the above is a fair assessment of Seminar 1’s structure – the seminar can roughly be divided into four parts: Financial Freedom and Independence, the Big/Bad Wolves of Wall Street, some (very) Introductory Stock Market Concepts and Beginner’s Technical Trading, and finally a series of sales pitches for their “advanced” training and systems.

    2. Any investment or trading system or company should be judged on the merits of its performance history of the long-term (at least 5 years, at a minimum); which should not only show the real-world results, but also the range of results experienced by MOST of their students/customers. Most purveyors of trading systems cannot provide you with such an in-depth history; and there are actually a precious few that do. However, NVOWS is not one of them. In fact, I personally asked David Mitchell if they published the results of their students (or at least a running tally of their recommendations), and he said that they did not (I recall that his explanation for that was rather weak).

    3. Success Stories – Most of the NVOWS “Daily Word on Investing” radio “shows” are thinly-veiled infomercials I hear almost daily on Christian radio in the Dallas area. If you’ll notice, they repeat the same two or three success stories over and over; such as the grandmother or the 18 year-old girl who made four figures her first month (or something to that effect). Even those stories illustrate only a very short window of success; never addressing how those people have done over the long term. The few people who have “fired their boss” to trade with NVOWS are mostly working for NVOWS as trainers and seminar leaders. So a fair question becomes, “How much of their actual income is made from trading vs. selling the system?”. So far, I haven’t seen On that note, a time-tested principal to keep in mind about trading systems is: “If it’s any good, they wouldn’t be selling it”.

    4. David Mitchell doesn’t have any Wall Street “secrets”…period. As many other comments have pointed out on this and the Kestrel review, virtually all of the NVOWS knowledge and training can be obtained from other more reliable and affordable sources. Mitchell has basically repackaged publicly available information (much of which is essentially free), and is providing it in a seminar course format at an obscenely high price. There’s certainly nothing illegal about that; though some might consider it unethical to take such advantage of the lesser informed.

    5. On that note above, I don’t believe there is any enforceable action that the SEC or investment authority could take against NVOWS. They are selling an education course; not an investment. This is not a security. They are offering to teach you in exchange for money; they are not taking your money and putting it into any sort of investment with the expectation of a return. Naturally, they are quick to disclaim that no specific results are guaranteed (and rightly so). Of course, any good salesman will naturally talk more about the successful ones; no matter how few they may be.

    6. There was one set of “secrets” that David Mitchell talked about in Day 1 of the seminar to which I will point my finger in accusation of being an outright fabrication; and that is, the claim that Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and many other notable billionaires made more of their fortune trading stocks than from building their companies. That, ladies and gentleman, is an outright lie. To insinuate that Bill Gates made most of his billions using similar trading strategies as taught by NVOWS is not only grossly misleading to the financially ignorant, it is also ridiculously absurd to the point of being hilarious. When he said that in the first day of Seminar 1, I nearly laughed out loud (and probably would have had I not been dumbfounded in shocking disbelief). No, Bill Gates and crowd made their billions by growing an entrepreneurial opportunity into publicly traded companies in which they owned millions and millions of shares. To mentally picture Bill Gates sitting in his basement looking at Support and Resistance on a stock trading chart still makes me chuckle… 😉

    7. Like many others have commented (and any real trader can tell you), trading is hard work; there is no getting around it. I’ve talked at length with more than a handful of “real” traders; guys who have spent the last couple of decades disciplining themselves with super-human levels of focus; forging themselves into nearly emotionless trading computers walking around on two legs. These are guys that trade the e-Mini, front-month WTI or Brent Crude, and individual stocks; sometimes making or losing nearly $100,000 in a day. Granted, that kind of action doesn’t happen on most days. In fact, not only is trading a full-time endeavor and very hard work; when done correctly, it is also usually pretty boring (the self-discipline you MUST have makes it so). Don’t get me wrong, there is certainly the possible upside of making near limitless amounts of money; but the glitz and glamour so often portrayed by the hucksters pushing their “system” is almost never the case.

    I’m certain I’ve had many other thoughts and observations about NVOWS (and trading in general), but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head; and hopefully this will be of help to someone who is just getting familiar with this domain.

    Cheers,
    Cash V.

    • Thank you for taking the time to share your honest thorough thoughts on NVOWS Seminar 1. I think they will be helpful to many.

      • You’re quite welcome. I forgot to add one last thought on my original post:

        8. Individual trading has limited scalability – even if you get really good at it (and a few people can), you can make a good living; and maybe even make millions. However, unless you are part of a larger trading firm or pool of capital and technology (like one of the big banks or hedge funds); your results are limited to what you can do on your own. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, but you won’t find any technical traders on the Forbes 400 list. The folks who make the really big, world-changing amounts of money (hundreds of millions, and billions) do so by creating or building something (usually from scratch). Take the Forbes 400 list, remove those who are on there only because of inheritances; and the self-made successes who are left almost always built their wealth by creating and building something from the ground up. The lesson here is two-fold: great wealth comes from Creation (aka Innovation) and Concentration (not diversification). In other words, the vast majority of their wealth came from that ONE amazing thing that they CREATED.

        • Great advise and personal knowledge shared Cash V. I know from personal experience that your every word is true. I’ve taken seminars, read books, studied charts, researched businesses I’ve invested in and have come to one conclusion. Getting rich by investing in stocks is a rich man game. There are many other resources needed to be successful that is not available to the lone individual. Such resources has spurred many to resort to “Insider trading” an illegal activity.

    • I have heard their radio announcements on Christian radio for the last few years. I am a seasoned trader and the only thing I would find of interest would be their investor’s club where they call the trades. Since they do not publish the performance of this club then how can I trust that it is worth the thousands of dollars they are charging. There are plenty of stock newsletters that pick stocks for you and the good ones show their past performance. I would happily pay 10K (I have heard) if their performance is out of this world good. They say they use 3 things to ensure a successful trade: 1. fundamentals of the company 2. tech analysis 3. overall market conditions. This seems correct – however, if they do not publish their results then how can we trust these guys? I do not even want to waste my time going to the first seminar but would join the investors club if they are all they claim to be and will call the trades for you.

        • George, you are SO right! Plus, (1) insider trading is illegal so I’m sure con men like David Mitchell are very careful not get caught with real insider info, and (2) this blog is purportedly run by a Christian woman who wouldn’t want to “cheat” if she is a Biblical Christian. The bottom line is that markets have already priced in all the non-illegal and some illegal insider knowledge into the prices if efficient market theory is true. While there may be some pricing irrationality for periods of time, you cannot make a living or a retirement nest egg on that info unless you’re skirting the edge of legality. Or, unless you’re a snake of a hedge fund trader like Jim “Mad Money” Cramer who has admitted publicly lying about information and trading privately in the other direction. Nobody can beat the market consistently over a 20-30 year investment horizon due to transaction costs and the time/effort expenditure. Modern Portfolio Theory has a scientific basis for long term investing. Day trading, swing trading, and other short term trading schemes sold by charlatans like David Mitchell make me ill, particularly when they claim to be “Christians.” Thank God he will some day set the scales of justice right. I just hope the poor people he’s swindling are reading these blog comments and discovering the truth.

          • Absolutely 100% not true.

            I know these people very well. I have traded with them successfully for over a year. I am Christian who holds other Christians to high standards and can tell you they are legit. I don’t care for their selling techniques or their prices, but they do nothing unChristian or immoral. Trading is VERY hard work. Just because it is not for you does not mean others cannot benefit from it.

    • You make a couple of good points, but I think you miss the big picture. NVOWs is not for the experienced trader, it is for those who have never tried it.

      BTW, how would NVOWs know how successful their traders are? I don’t share that with them and I don’t know of any other students who do.

      I went to Seminar I knowing more about the stock market than the presenters and I was pretty turned off. I had done some trading a few years ago with Interactive Brokers and Esignal and know all the technical stuff.
      However, my experience told me that, with all the info on the web, you could get all the facts and still not know what to do with them. For example, a call option costs much less than the stock and makes money when the stock goes up, but which of the hundreds of call options available for that stock do you buy and why? Nothing on web will tell you that. A credit spread is a vertical spread of either call options or put options, but how do you trade them? What spread do you chose? Exactly which strikes and why? Not on the web either.

      A friend of mine, a 70+ year old lady with no experience, bought Top Gun. She needed help navigating the software, but she is doing quite well trading their stategies.

      I bought Top Gun and called the coaches daily for 6 months. I have been trading credit spreads without a loss for the past 4 months. I know the risks and pick my trades carefully and manage them in real time.

      NVOWS selling technique IS very aggressive and most of their products are over priced. But, their Top Gun package was worth it for me.

  6. does anyone have any insight into the insiders club from what they call the top gun group? Are they really calling all of the trades and is there performance above the market?

    • I’m sorry George it took me a few days longer to write back than usual. “Insiders” and “Top Gun” are seperate. Top Gun is just what they call the traders who have bought all 4 seminars and the entity seminar. It is about 12-15k depending on if you pay cash or finance it. Of course they start by saying it’s a much higher value maybe around 40k value and then they work it down to 12-15k.
      Insiders on the other hand is something that anyone can subscribe to. It’s $50 per month and includes access to several parts of their NVOWS website including the tutorials on how to do anything from setting up a brokerage account, placing a trade, etc. The “Insiders” also gives one access to David Mitchells list of the top 50-100 most fundamentally sound stocks which he gets from the IBD ratings along with DM telechart settings that can be downloaded every 1-2 weeks that include all his watchlists and lines he’s drawn. Coaching is also included with Insiders. Coaches are available Monday-Thursday during normal business hours although it’s much harder to get a coach right away now a days compared to a few years ago when there were less Insiders. They also post every now and then the list of stocks they think are at good buy points or approaching good buy points and what pattern they think they are in. Oh and I almost forgot they send out what they call “Market Alert” emails most days and sometimes multiple times a day giving a market overview and making one aware of any news or reports that could move the market. David Mitchell also posts a weekly article on the Insiders site giving a detailed overview of Market tone for the past week. As you can see I don’t think the point of the Insiders is to call of the trades but to equip one with the tools to start to recognize they’re own trades and patterns and to be able to start to gage market tone on their own. I personally cancelled my Insiders after about 3 years for many reasons but one being that it was no longer very helpful and sometimes confusing and the stock picks are like most in that they are right about as much as they are wrong. Same thing I’ve experienced with just about any stock picker I’ve used. I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you have others or if I need to clarify something.

    • I’m not a top gun but I am an insider with one ridiculously good play I did based on the Insider list of suggested trades. Last spring (February?) David had Key as a cup and handle. I was new to options and checked the chain and found a contract below the money for $.14 I believe (I couldn’t get back in history beyond 6 months). I invested about $2,500 and within less than a week, if I remember correctly, the option was worth about $.45-.48 and we had made over 7,000 on 2500. My mouth is still hanging open. The specifics are available in market history.

      This was very unusual and I’ve gone my own way an had greedy losses (and some other pretty nice gains) but I do believe, in an orderly market and following David’s methods – very good money can be made.

      • Thank you for leaving your feedback Don. I was also in that play on KEY but had invested less so I made less. That was a fun one : )

    • They are not a stock picking service. They train you how to trade on your own. Top Gun is an educational service that comes with real time coaching, a 10 trade stock webinar to show you how they their strategies work, and a weekly coaching webinar where you can ask questions about trading techniques.

  7. I just found your blogs. Thank you for your blogs. Very informative, realistic, practical and helpful.

    My lovely wife (Elisa Park) and myself would like to “subscribe” (if possible) to your blog RE: NVOWS.

    We have both recently joined NVOWS, and we are looking for practical ways to success by God’s Grace- one step at a time and encouraging ourselves in the Lord each step of the way!

    We look forward to work hard and build a solid foundation. I believe your blogs can help us in this process!

    We look forward to hearing from you.

    Please consider this my “subscription” request to your blog.

    God bless.

    2 Corinthians 4 (NKJV)
    6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
    7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

    • Pastor Brown – tread carefully. In my experience companies like NVOWS prey on the uninformed and cannot prove a consistent track record of success. The fees NVOWS charges to get their “insider information” are exorbitant. You can get the same coaching and more accurate information for a much better rate from credible ministries like Dave Ramsey. I live in the Dallas area and would be happy to talk to you by phone or meet in person to answer questions you have – at no charge.

      • That is horrible to hear that nvows is actually preying on Christians. I would join their insiders club if the investment paid off but it does not seem like anyone knows. In reading this blog maybe only the people working for nvows are making money.
        I would gladly share my picks with fellow believers for free somewhere where Christians could congregate together in an investment club of sorts. I have done very well in the market and follow a low risk approach. At the end of the day, if nvows is having people pick stocks then they should publish their performance.
        The market continues to make highs and i have 2 stocks that I continue to be bearish on and that is GPRO and LOCO. I make a bearish bet on these two whenever I see that they have a high up day. Long ideas are around MU and GILD.

        • What NVOWS is doing is not illegal, nor would it bother me if a non-believer was engaging in these sorts of business practices. NVOWS advertises prolifically on KWRD Christian Talk Radio in Dallas where David Mitchell talks about his “fourth generation family business” and his self-ascribed moniker as “mentor to millionaires” to establish his credibility. I’m sure he believes he’s doing a good service to all the uninformed Christian investors who are looking for guidance. The concern I have is when I heard the fees they were charging for their advice, it blew me away. I haven’t found confirmation in this blog yet about the $40k price tag for their “insider” group which is called “Top Gun” but if that is the case this is a blatant rip-off. There is plenty of research proving that NOBODY can beat the market consistently over time. You’d be better off putting your $40k in an index fund in a normal business cycle economy. However, with the US national debt bubble at $18 trillion and growing and the Fed printing money like crazy with their “quantitative easing” there is probably no safe place to be when the dollar bubble pops. Maybe Mitchell will advise his clients to get out of stocks before the bottom falls out. I hope so for all the believers that believe him.

          • Yes David Mitchell is very concerned about the high dept and the bottom falling out and has advised for quite some time now (too long if you ask me- 3+ years) that it may be time to get your money into cash in your mutual funds before the bottom falls out or at least the impending bear comes. To clarify, Top Gun is for all 4 seminars they offer and their entity seminar and it is about 12-15k. Insiders is something separate you can join that is an ongoing $50 a month and includes all kinds of things like coaching, market alert emails, stock picks, DM telechart settings, a weekly market tone article, tutorials, etc. I think I will be doing a post shorly on Insiders because of the questions people have about it. Yes the training is very expensive and can be learned on ones own it would just take more time to weed through all the information and find the stuff that works. If someone have the time and determination I would definately recommend they save the money and figure it out on their own through internet, books and best case scenerio a successful mentor.

      • Dennis you wrote, “nobody can beat the market consistently over a 20-30 year investment horizon due to transaction costs and the time/effort expenditure.” It sounds like George is doing well in the markets and several others have even without illegal insider trading practices. Perhaps if you get the chance you could read Stock Market Wizards. While it is extremely hard to succeed it is possible for a minority even without doing anything illegally. I just don’t want you to 100% bash NVOWS or say they are preying on people when you have never been to a seminar or met their founder or coaches or heard their hearts or training. While I agree with some of what you’ve said around this blog, you aren’t speaking from 100% experience on this subject because it sounds like you haven’t traded or even worked with NVOWS at all. It isn’t fair to compare Dave Ramsey’s teaching to David Mitchell’s because they aren’t teaching on the same subject at all. Ramsey focuses on helping people get out of debt and change certain attitudes about money. Mitchell teaches how to trade. It’s like comparing apples to ceiling fans. 🙂 I think it’s nice that you are cautioning Vance but at the same time he has already made the investment in the training and the money is already spent so he might as well give it his absolute all and see what God has in store for him. Perhaps Vance might be part of that small minority that makes it. I can tell Dennis that you have a love for people and helping them and that is why you are taking the time to comment around the blog. Thank you for caring for others.

        • Thanks Trader for the clarification on what the insiders club is and is not. $50/month is not a bad deal if you just want some trade ideas. However, I tend to respect the groups that make their calls and list their performance.
          I think you can beat index funds depending on the year. The 30%+ gain for the S&P last year is hard to beat so you would have been better off buying the index and forgetting about it; however, how are you to know in January that you should put your money in an index and walk away for a year. My crystal ball just is not that good. I trade on my own and only some of my positions are in index funds due to some of the methodolgy that NVOWS seems to teach on their infomercials. Warren Buffet did not make it big with a basket of stocks nor do any of the top activist investors … and an index is a basket of stocks where the top 10% account for all of your wins and the bottom 90% bring down your total YOY return.
          The good thing of being a safe trader is that when the months/years come for suboptimal performance you will actually make money instead of losing it. Also, in a sideways market, calling your own shots can give you a 15%+ return while the market (dividends removed) essentially went sideways. When we had the October correction this year and the S&P was essentially as 0% return for the whole year from Jan2014 to October I was up near 20%. Again though, it is hard to argue with what the nasdaq and s&P did in 2013.

          I like the idea of Christians helping Christians. I currently pay for ideas from several investment clubs and they actually release their performance so I was hoping for something similar here. I am not trying to bash NVOWS at all but really looking to peel the onion back and find out the truth of what they offer. it does feel a bit like preying on people to me if they are charging you 15K just to learn how to spot good stocks. If they followed that up with a select inside group of trade calls that consistently returned 500bps more than the market then you have a product in NVOWS to be proud of. I could recommend a good investment newsletter that costs 300/year and has great performance and will teach you to trade.

          • George I really like what you said, “I am not trying to bash NVOWS at all but really looking to peel the onion back and find out the truth of what they offer.” That is one of the main reasons I started this blog and why I think it’s so great and important that we are all talking about it and peeling back the truth and experiences of many so more can make educated decisions without the hype. As far as I know they don’t offer a consistent stock picker and post performance. I honestly think they really want their students to succeed but it seems that few do or at least I haven’t been able to find many/any? but I’m hoping through this blog to find some.

  8. Do you or anyone know what the real statistics of success with Neuventure are? I guess there are now close to 15,000 Top Guns in the Company. There must be an estimate somewhere?
    TX

    • David you ask the question everyone is wanting to know and no one seems to know. That is one of the reasons I created this blog. We need a place where we can all connect and talk and get an honest look at how others are doing. If you find out anything please comment on here or send me an email. I wish I had the answer but I don’t and it seems impossible to track almost because first you’d have to define success. Is being profitable for a month successful? No way. How about a year? I would venture to say one wouldn’t even know after a year if they will be successful long term.

  9. While it would be interesting to know how the TopGunners are doing, you likely well not get that information. I, too, attended Seminar I. I thought is was an ok venue, but I walked into it knowing that all that will be introduced is rolling stocks and advertisements. I will say that they offer AMAZING discounts for active military…or at least they did at the time I went. That is what attracted me the most to the product. They start at the $40k package deal and work it down to $10-11k. With a military discount, that ‘final’ price is sliced in about half. I was a bone-head and paid the $4k for another company’s gig. The $4k course I took went into much more depth than NVOWS, but the storyline was the same. High priced, high pressure sales. It’s all about Lessons Learned. What I would like to know is how is the ‘average’ person doing in terms of an ROI? Said another way, if you are an average person working a normal job, juggling the normal things in life so you don’t have the time to make trading a full time job, can you make a decent ROI with say $2k starter money and hit a break-even point quickly? I am not asking for easy and quick, I just want to know that the rule set will work. I would like to break even on the upfront investment and then eventually make some money. Any thoughts out there on that? Thanx.

    • Thanks for commenting and asking the question we all want the answer to. Much of the reason I started this blog was to give everyone an open and honest platform to try to get that answer. Have I found that answer yet? No I haven’t but I continue to pursue and search. I have met 2 successful people through this blog…strangely though neither trade with NVOWS. That’s all I know right now but I will keep searching and hopefully more and more people will come out of wood work to share their experiences.

      • Trader/
        Thanx. You’ve met two successful folks. That is interesting…only two. I have to believe that the systems these companies sell do actually work. My issue is that I cannot pay attention to the trades all day long. My regular job does not support that kind of attention. I have the two data points from two different companies. NVOWS and the ‘other’ that I won’t mention because I don’t want to toss anyone under the bus and quite honestly, I learned a tremendous amount in both seminars. NVOWS is priced much more reasonably though. Thanks for starting the blog and I am interested to see who joins and shares their story. Cheers, LL.

        • Good to hear from you LL. Please keep us posted on how trading goes for you. I know it’s so hard to trade while working another job. I hope it’s going great for you though!

  10. Let me make it simple. When I was a kid I attended a fair at which was a booth with a guy showing the coolest card tricks with his deck of cards – he made it look all SO EASY…. Naturally as a 10 – 12yo boy, I was excited to try and laid down my $1 – 2 for a deck of cards

    Needless to say after a few tries those cards fell to dis-use….

    I would suggest that NeuVenture is simply a carnival barker – working and up-selling you with what are various well known stock investing approaches. I grant there is a LOT to learn. So how much is that time of yours worth? And there will always be risk. What else is God calling you to do?

    Bottom line – go where God calls you to go.

  11. I too am a Christian and was recommended by a friend of mine to check out nvows.com over 5 years ago. I had been investing in stocks for the past 15 years but never really had much success at it so I decided that maybe some formal training would help.

    I live in Katy, Tx so at the first opportunity I could I attended Seminar I where David Huber had me all excited about how easy it is to make money and how he was able to pay off his college debt in a matter of a few years. I had my doubts because I asked him a question regarding a “wash sale” and he said he had never heard of that but would find out. hmmm, that should have been a red flag.
    But he continued to tell us how elite it is to be accepted as a “Top Gun” student and that only a few of us would be selected. If you wanted to get in though we all had a write a full page paper on why we thought we should be accepted into the “elite” group. How deceitful! There were a total of ten of us who paid and became Top Gun. Of course after spending $11,000 for Top Gun, $4,000 for The Perfect Play, and then the $12,000 for the Paradise in Hawaii after one year I had not made a profit in the market. I would call in and speak with someone as to what I did wrong with a particular trade and get the same response, “well, you did the play right but I can’t tell you why it didn’t work.”

    After studying and working my butt off for the past 5 years I have finally started making it work for me. But it wasn’t easy. I read several book on Jesse Livermore and if he could do it then I should be able to. He did go broke several times but learned from his mistakes. I can honestly say that I have done the same thing.
    I’m always learning. I have read every book by William O’Neil and I subscribe to his IBD to give me a heads up on what the markets are doing.

    Mostly, I regret the money that I invested in NeuVenture and feel like I was taken advantage of. There are so many other places that offer the same information but at a cheaper price.
    So I want to share my knowledge with other Christians who want to learn how to invest so that they don’t get taken advantage of. Seminar I-IV do actually teach you something but if they cut out the breaks and time spent on selling products then each seminar could be covered in a single day.

    Some of David’s tactics are okay but there are several things that he does not teach that are important. He also advocates the “Reverse & Hold” rule when a credit trade goes against you which should only be done with certain criteria. There are better ways to protect your investment than to buy back the option you sold and keep the one that you bought.
    The fact that he encourages to use a platform like eOption and TeleChart only adds to his exploitation and disregard for people’s finances. Using their Excel sheet to find the correct options chain is ridiculous and time consuming. I would much rather pay a little higher premium for something like ThinkOrSwim to find the options contract that I want by giving me all of the Greeks instantly than to spend the time on the Excel sheet.
    Find yourself a mentor who actually makes a living trading and learn from that person as much as you can. My mentor was John Carter and I have invested quite a bit of money learning from him.

    I have my own business, http://www.globalsysintserv.com and am sending you this email from India since I am here currently on a small project. I will be back next month. It was only because of my business that I was able to afford David’s high cost of training. I feel really bad for those families who are on a really tight budget that spent that kind of money.
    For the past year I have been developing a new website to help others to trade successfully at an affordable price. I do NOT want to see other people, especially Christians, be taken advantage of and have their hard earned money taken from them from someone who claims to be a Christian but practically robs them of their money. This website will become active within the next month or two.

    My goal is to get this website up and running and allow people within a geographical area to express interest in a specific seminar and if there were at least 20 people interested then I would fly my personal plane to that area and give them the seminar. This way is much more feasible for people who want to learn but cannot afford David’s high prices or to travel to a specific area.

    My seminars (I, II, & III) offer much more and specific trades than what David teaches and cost only a fraction of what he charges. The seminars are broken into basic stock trading, options and spreads but you DO NOT need to have taken the first two seminars to take Seminar III.
    I’m also working on a Seminar IV which goes more into details about specific calculations for support and resistance levels and how the are important to prices and writing covered calls. This is a level that David doesn’t teach. These seminars can be attended in any order.
    I do not plagiarize anything that David teaches. My presentations are original and from my own experiences and knowledge with a well written and documented book.

    Feel free to contact me if anyone is interested. I can offer a one on one course if in the local area. If there are several people interested then give me a call and we can set something up.
    Thank you.

    Tod Strickland
    Global Systems Integration Services, LLC
    (281) 989-2133

    • Todd – thanks. I still hear this NVOWS add everyday on Christian radio. I don’t see how David and his company have the best of intentions for fellow Christians. Who has “fired his/her boss” and does not work for David’s company?

      You can take all of the courses you like, you can study the market all you like, fundamental analysis, technical analysis and momentum analysis …. all of that can be done correctly – and you still lose on a trade.

      You are better off going with an investing newsletter that tells you what to buy and what to sell and when

  12. OK, I have replied to some of the posts and will tell you what I think overall.

    My wife and I have been Top Guns for over a year and do not regret one day of it. We are not wealthy by any means.

    1. NVOWs is NOT a company that takes advantage of people. PERIOD. I am 63 and have experience with those
    who do and David Mitchell is no phoney.

    2. Can you make money consistently from Seminar I? Probably not. Seminar I, unfortunately, is a sales seminar that paints a VERY rosy picture. That is unfortunate, but all sales organizations do.

    3. Is this for the experienced trader – a big NO. NVOWS spends a lot of time teaching the basics because they are targeting those with NO experience.

    4. Is this for the casual trader? I can’t really say. I couldn’t do this part time. But then, I couldn’t go to school part time either. For me to “get it” I have to be doing it all the time.

    5. Do the results come quickly? Depends on the individual, of course. Some do well off the bat, some take more time. I am finally to a point that I get it. It took me a while to get use to the emotions of trading and wanting to get out at the slightest downturn.

    If you want to learn to trade and have the time and patience it takes to get the education from scratch, with hand holding for 6 months, I recommend NVOWs Top Gun program. They will try to sell you a LOT of additional stuff, but I wouldn’t buy ANYTHING until you have mastered the Top Gun material.

    • When I say “taking advantage” of people I am simply referring to the ridiculous high prices that NVOWs charges. Anyone can learn the same material with a mentor for a price much more reasonable.
      Why do you think they give you one price that is much higher and then by the end of the seminar they drop it? Because the price they are charging in not worth the material.
      There’s no doubt that I learned about options and how to do spreads by taking David’s seminars. But it took a LOT more studying and figuring out which strategies worked best and how to play defense if a play didn’t work out whereas David’s “reverse and roll” technique can cost you thousands if you’re not careful. My strategies make me money on a consistent basis every week. Sure, not every play works but you have to know how to protect yourself and limit your losses. The BIGGEST reason most people fail at trading is very simple, they get impatient and trade too much.
      I became a Top Gun over 5 years ago so I know how the markets work and I do this on a full time basis.

      • Thank you Tod for your comments about Neuventure. I bought the Option’s package because that’s all I could afford. Went to Seminar I and Seminar II in my area. Learned quite a bit in Seminar I. Was extremely disappointed with Seminar II. The guest speaker was not prepared in the use of the computer that was provided to her and spoke too fast. I am also disappointed in the cost for the Home Study Courses that, I believe, should be included when purchasing your package according to the level you’re buying. Neuventure and all companies have every right to make money on their products but not at the expense of exploiting people. What have I learned from this new venture? Pray first. Ask for God’s guidance. Do some research before making a decision.

  13. So bottom line for me is should a person with absolutely NO stock market knowledge or experience whatsoever, pay $99.00 to attend this seminar or can I learn all of this stuff by purchasing a book such as “Stock Market for Dummies?” Seriously, I want to know because if I can learn enough to “get started” in the stock market from a book, why pay for something I probably cannot afford in the first place? And yes, I too wish NVOWS would be more “up front” about the ultimate costs of doing business with them. The WordFM needs to be careful allowing “deceptive” advertising on their station even though they throw in a disclaimer to “cover” themselves…

    • To answer your question directly, No you can not learn enough to ‘get started’ in the stock market from NVOWS Seminar 1 or from a “Stock Market for Dummies” book. I mean sure you can ‘get started’ after attending a Seminar 1 or reading, “Stock Market for Dummies” but the chances of you being successful with either/or/both are slim to none. There are very few successful traders period. Even those who spend years learning and devouring all they can. This is what it boils down to…do you want to live, eat, sleep trading? Do you love and have that much interest in it? If you do then dive in with all you’ve got. If you don’t then probably don’t waste your time. Feel free to shoot me any other questions you have.

  14. I have attended the Seminar 1 two times. I listen to these ads on Christian radio here in DC area WAVA 105.1 The Don K. show promotes this and has David Mitchell on as a guest although I am sure some of those are replays because I’ve heard before and it was exactly the same 2nd time. They hold in a nice hotel. The seminar fee is $99 for yourself/guest/and most recently your household. The “retail” price on the website is $4500 (like who would pay that, it’s a sales technique to show something of value). There is always at least 1 couple doing the seminar – husband and wife. The 1st seminar there were 2 couples. Both seminars, usually at day two, the “woman” tells about her hard life and then how it’s all changed since stock trading with this method. It’s a very compelling “story” but what was unsettling, was that both woman, each seminar, had the “same” or “nearly same” story. Then they take the break and start the hard core selling/closing to get you to buy their other products; mostly the Top Gun Flight School which retails for like $40,000 + and they offered it to me for $14,000, which I declined. The husband pulled me out of the seminar a 2nd and 3rd time to keep reducing the prices to get me to “act now”. Final offer was $11,000 for Top Gun. They take each student (or couple) out into the hallway and sit them down at a table and proceed to do the “act now” it is very high pressure. This is the 2nd day usually. The offer is only good for that day. I talked to several students who were at my 1st seminar, for their 2nd or 3rd time. They had purchased the Top Gun program. I asked how much. The prices ranged from $14,000 – $16,000 that they had paid. My offer was $11,000. I asked those folks if they had actually done well, made money, how active in the program etc. While they said they were active (and clearly knew a lot about it) they had not made money. They were back to see if they had missed something. They do participate in the calls. etc. I found day two to be mostly “fast talk” to give pieces of information, instead of a whole picture. The instructors would not answer specific questions about exactly “how” to do it. They show David Mitchell’s software (free download), but they don’t tell you how to install it, that you have to buy the other software (subscription) and they don’t provide good enough instructions to make it work. It was a “mystery” and I asked other students who were repeats, they had the same comments.

    I did join the “insider club”. It was a waste of money. I got a daily “update” from David Mitchell only it was staffed out, not from him of course. It only talked about what the market was doing. There was never any specific stock information in the daily newsletter. It was the same information day after day with a recap of the days or prior days stock market behavior, which I can get on TV or other websites. I called for support a couple of times to get help. The two calls I had weren’t helpful. They talk in circles. I too asked them how many people had actually become millionaires who had taken this program. The answer was “we don’t know”. I asked that question to the “speakers” at both seminars. Answer was the same. If this is such a great program why wouldn’t they track the students who register, apply it, and make millions so they can say “97% of our students earned over $1m in the 1st 12 month” or something like that. They have no clue if it works or not except for the ones who “call in” and tell them. I agree I hear the same commercials with same people. There are no /few customer testimonials anywhere on the Web or their site (only a few I found). Mostly people saying negative things.

    I kept the insider club for 10 months. Over 10 months I got little to no value from it. It is $49.99 a month. Another rip off. The CDs they sell at the program are also expensive. $850 if you want to learn at home. They reduce it if you buy Top Gun. Oh and here’s the thing that really annoyed me (besides their sob story sales pitch by the lady and the super high pressure “act now” in the hallway) – you can’t attend any of the other seminars unless you buy one of their expensive programs. They are only available to “top guns”. Stupid. Why not let me attend if I want and pay a fair price for it? I did attend a few of the telephone/webinars. They were not helpful and did not gear towards someone learning the system. They simply talked about “the market” and there were so many people on the call, ran out of time for questions. After a few of these I quit wasting my time.

    I also find it interesting that on he BIOS of the “event speakers” that most of them don’t put any claim to have become rich from using this system. Only a few of them state that they took the training, implemented it, and became rich and quit their jobs to work for NuVenture. The others have typical corporate backgrounds and are “event speakers” (motivational speakers, sales people – I use to be one of these). Also, I find it interesting that it seems impossible to get a physical address for this company. It’s a PO Box and you would think with the wealth they are amassing that their website would be a high-end one with lots of helpful information to those seeing to learn stock trading, loaded with downloads, PDFS and other things and current newsfeeds of stock market info etc. Especially to someone who is a “member” I just wonder why they would not create a more useful and robust website than this cheap looking one they have that looks like something someone did in their basement. NeUventure On Wall Street PO Box 1794, Corsicana, Texas 75151 DTI-NeUventure Inc

    Just an FYI I was able to track down the folks who do their Entity Seminar. It’s Anderson Advisors out of Las Vegas, NV They are tax attorneys, tax preparers, and corporate entity and investing (not stocks, wealth management). They are “all under one roof” service. I called them and spoke with them and hired them to form my entities and to “advise me”. It’s been interesting. More on them later but needless to say one wonders what the heck the guys are doing based in Las Vegas and why their focus is to help people making money “hide their money” through entities, that have entities, that have entities. They have provided good information to me over the past year and if you are thinking of starting a business I would do a free consultation with them to understand a lot of things. And also try to attend one of their Entity Seminars because that is 1st step before you attend the Tax Workshop (which is 2.5 days) and chocked full of information, but if you don’t understand all the stuff about setting up your entity (corporation or LLC) then its a backtrack. They have been great and I recommend them a lot to folks who aren’t using their LLCs/tax preparation as they should (I could have saved about $60k over the last 5 years, in taxes, had I known what I know now).

  15. Hi!

    Loved your post. I like to learn about computers and people involved in Stocks and their journey of how they get involved, what they learned in starting months and so on.

    Would be a regular visitor of your blog now onwards.

  16. Does anyone understand what is happening now that they have switched to Tradeway? I know they said we would be “grandfathered in” but to what? As a top gun, I have not received any new information as to what I have now been grandfathered into?? I am skeptical because I have not have a very good experience with the trading. I have not done my homework and I realize that. However, getting a hold of a coach is very difficult when you only have a lunch hour to call them and get the information you need. I listen to the coaching online and I feel so lost most of the time. Any ideas what is going to happen to us?? I fear this is some move to nullify our agreements. Has anyone received a new agreement to sign? I keep emailing the support center so I can login to their new website but I do not get a response. WHAT IS GOING ON??

    • Make sure you check out my thoughts on the change to TRADEway. In my heart of hearts I don’t think they are going to try to nullify any agreements. I think they are just doing the best thing for their company and for all the students who want more advice for their finances than just swing trading which is what they teach. Now they can teach other things to do with money. What I’m not sure about is how that will fit into the 4 seminars that are currently included with Top Gun. It will be interesting to see what happens. Knowing NVOWS they will probably create a bunch of new products you can spend your money on though. Now even more ways to spend 😉

  17. What is the name of the online training webinars that you pay $39.95/ month? Any other trading courses recommended? Anyone know about Adam mesh trading?

    • I think you might be referring to Trade Smart University. I have been very impressed with them. Even when Brexit happened they immediately sent out an email to their students explaining the situation and giving specific tips on what to do with they plays they were in. I have not heard of Adam Mesh trading or the Academy of Financial Training.

  18. Anyone heard of the Academy of Financial Training? Have offices in NY as well as Ireland and Britain. Online classes. Review on them?

  19. When I signed up for TOPGUN it was described as the “everything” package. They tell a story about a student who wanted it all and they developed the TOPGUN product for him. After paying several -several – several thousands of dollars you find out that “everything” was just three more 2 day classes. In each of these classes, you are constantly bombarded with other products you need to purchase to be successful from home study courses to cruises in which even better strategies are taught. I thought I was getting it all, but that was not the case. I wish in the 1st class I would have understood exactly what “everything” was and what it wasn’t. Had I known, I doubt I would have purchased the TOPGUN.

  20. OK – reading all of that was exhausting, but I have to say it was more helpful than you can possibly imagine…so a big THANK YOU to everyone who posted.

    I’m one of those guys who listened to David’s infomercial on the radio and I’m a guy who has been in construction so long that I have, the “end” in sight. Meaning simply, I don’t have many years left to be working in my line of work and have to do something different before it’s too late. No retirement to speak of, some decent equity in my house, and two kids through college with no debt. There’s my legacy…no debt for my kids, one of whom graduated from Baylor University with a degree in engineering. Pretty proud of that to say the least.
    Nonetheless, here I am, needing to do something different to provide for my wife after I stop breaking my back.
    I have attended Seminar I twice now. I will say for someone with little or no experience it was very informative and motivating. It caused me to open an account and to get my feet wet. I also learned from Seminar 1 how important being disciplined is. So, that said – very helpful.

    During day 2 of the second seminar I was ready to make the move and buy the TOP GUN package, but something kept nagging at me in the back of my mind. A question that popped up over and over. The other writers are correct…sales pitches galore. Over and over, the high price to be followed by a lower, “easy to swallow” price. Well for some, it’s easy to swallow. So there’s the question again…every time the speakers brought up what a great guy David is and how he never takes a dime from the church he serves, I thought the same thing. If his desire is to equip Christians with the skills to create generational wealth and a family business, why in the world is it so expensive? I mean $14,000 for six or eight days of training and a few CDs? Really?
    So after I sat down for the “pitch” and with that nagging question in my mind, I told the gentlemen that I needed to speak with my wife, who had no interest in attending. Sales people love that, which is why the worst of them always “require” both to attend.

    So I did. I called her…my best friend. Her simple, but wise advice was “Google it”. Brilliant! “Find out how many success stories are on the web” she said. You know how many I found? Zero! None! You’d think that a company with the kind of success they were saying was possible would be plastering it everywhere. Oh, there were some who claimed success, but nothing clear and concise. Kind of like when people go to a casino. Ever heard anyone say “yeah, I went and got killed up there”? Nope! Maybe the SEC has rules about that sort of thing, but the nagging question lingered.

    Anyway, her brilliant advice also caused me to ask around the room. Several other TOP GUNNERS were there. Taking Step 1…again. None of them had quit their jobs. In fact, none of them had made any money yet. $14,000 investment…no earnings. Not for me.
    Anyway, thanks again everyone. You’ve been a huge help. Amazon books…here I come!

  21. I find all of your stories and findings very interesting. I went to Seminar I over 6 years ago and was so excited about finally understanding how to make money on Wall Street caused me to sign up and become a Top Gun. After all, $10,000 investment is nothing compared to the $100,000 I had lost when the market plummeted in 2008. Yes, NVOWS are nothing more than motivational speakers and they WANT your money!! I saw one of the speakers talking to a poor old woman at the end of the seminar who had recently lost her husband and they talked her into writing a check for $10,000 to become a Top Gun student and convinced her that it was the best way to retire with her late husbands money. They are NOT professional traders! If they were why on earth would they spend their time on a weekend motivating people to spend their hard earned money?
    I will admit that I was a victim to the motivational speakers and got a very BASIC understanding of how the different strategies worked and how to use options, but what really got me to start making money in the markets was reading…lots and lots of books and taking several more classes from John Carter. Also, learn what you can by reading books from Bill O’Neal and Jesse Livermore. Understand the CANSLIM strategy that Bill uses. I personally don’t like to spend hours at a time picking out favorite stocks so I just use option spreads on the S&P index. One thing you must understand about the market, in order for you to make money…you are essentially taking it away from someone else who is on the other side of your trade. So you are up against PRO’s who do it for a living!
    Wanna know the biggest SECRET when it comes to winning on Wall Street? Keeping your emotions at bay!! You must trade like a robot and follow your rules. Never break your rules! Fear & Greed are what drives the Markets!! It’s all human emotions.

  22. I went to the first class last month and they were asking $89,000. for top gun!!!!! Yes Eighty nine thousand dollars! A few people who looked like they could in no way afford it, got in line to sign up.

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